Today we will have a look at the prophecies of two men who speculate what humanity will be like in the future. The interesting part is that these predictions were written quite a bit ago so they should reflect how we are experiencing life today. They are quite different and interesting to compare. See which you thought came the closest.The first is from the “Little Blue Book” series (number 1621) written by Professor William F. Ogburn and edited by E. Haldeman-Julius. Much of the book seemed to be on the mark but it did predict the decrease of population largely due to “the spread of the use of contraceptives.”
“So then, with a restricted population, a rapidly growing technology . . . we should expect to be untrue the often quoted prediction of Jesus, ‘the poor you ye have with you always.’
“If the use of
contraceptives is extended radically, it will mean a revolution for women and children . . . the answer is that the production of babies, like the production of potatoes, will be governed by demand, now that the supply can be controlled.“If the production of babies falls very low, the value of the baby will rise, according to sound economics. This appreciation of children will show itself in better kindergartens, playgrounds, and schools . . .The spread of higher education will be more rapiod than the growth of vocational opportunities utilizing this educational content. The result will be that the common laborer will be well versed in philosophy and the plumber will discuss Aristotle – and they will still be quoting Aristotle as well as members of the professions.
“The scarcity of children will mean not only that they will be appreciated more, but that women who bear children will similarly be more highly valued. This increased value will command a price and that price will be more opportunity.”
The second prediction of the future comes from His Holiness Pope Paul VI in his encyclical, “Humane Vitae.” He addresses the same concerns as the gentleman above but predicts a much different outcome.
“It can . . .be feared that the man who becomes used to contraceptive practices, may fi
nally lose respect for the woman and no longer caring about her physical and psychological equilibrium, come to the point of considering her a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion.“Consider what a dangerous weapon that would thus be placed in the hands of those public authorities who have no concern for the requirements of morality . . . Who will stop rulers from favoring and even imposing upon their peoples, if they should consider it necessary, the method of contraception that they judge to be most efficacious . . . the intervention of public authorities (in) the most personal and most reserved sector of conjugal intimacy.”
Care to weigh in?
23 comments:
Paul VI was a prophet. EVERYTHING he said in that encyclical has happened or is happening now, and it's just getting worse.
The population decrease referred to in the "Little Blue Book" has long been a goal of global elites and gave rise to the practice of eugenics. Hitler's Ubermenschen and Sanger's Planned Parenthood are outgrowths of this idea.
I concur with Adoro concerning Pope Paul VI's encyclical. Red China, anyone?
Such nonsense. People are becoming more aware how to control population with their OWN thinking , look a the millions of UNWANTED babies that are being born. that are regretted.. born into poverty, and more misery.
the day of the BIG family as dictated by religious sects is OVER.
One theory is silly,[ the first article] the other is ludicrous [ da popes] Both born in the fantasyland of intellectual drivel .
The church influenced my sisters decision to have children , they didn’t use contraception cause the “ church” was against it.
she had four children and regretted 3 of them. now how’s THAT for family values??
Ask her today what she would have done. ??
she said I did it. I LEFT the catholic church with its outdated dogma and old men in a dead city[ Rome] telling me what to do with my life. and started to make my OWN decisions and take control of my OWN body….
She by the way is a VERY religious person, and makes her OWN decisions now. and is VERY happy with her spiritual direction .
She still is under the spell of Catholicism , but makes SURE she keeps a good distance from their dogma. [ as she loves praying for others in church etc… but… [ SHE MADE HER OWN CHOICE].
Hey! SattVicWarrior, glad to see that you are well. Your response shows your burning desire to help us see the light and free us from that which is holding us back from true happiness. With such intensity you express your position. Are you absolutely sure that you are absolutely right in what you said? Can I be absolutely sure to trust you above other authorities (e.g., the popes)? This is serious business and I need to know whom I can rely on to tell me the absolute truth. (I extend my heartfelt wishes to your sister, without knowing her circumstances. From the brevity of your description I cannot be sure if she regretted having three of her children because of the sacrifices necessary to feed, clothe and educate them. Or was she unhappy with how they turned out as adults, i.e., with their having gone against what she and her husband had tried to instill in them as the children were being raised.)
About the catholic Church, Joyce used to say, "Here comes everybody!"
About the modernists, I say, "Here come the robots!"
And they are coming. You better believe it.
“It can be feared that the man who becomes used to contraceptive practices, may finally lose respect for the woman and no longer caring about her physical and psychological equilibrium, come to the point of considering her a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion."
Disrespect for women and men when it comes to sex and intimacy has always been around. Contraceptives don't change anything but reducing the chance of pregnancy. I fact, they make having an intimate relationship with someone you love much more fulfilling because the couple isn't worried about pregnancy and can focus on their intimacy and relationship longer. It's opened up new doors in terms of relationships, but it most certainly is not the cause for disrespect in any aspect, it's the person who disrespect's others fault.
“Consider what a dangerous weapon that would thus be placed in the hands of those public authorities who have no concern for the requirements of morality . . . Who will stop rulers from favoring and even imposing upon their peoples, if they should consider it necessary, the method of contraception that they judge to be most efficacious . . . the intervention of public authorities (in) the most personal and most reserved sector of conjugal intimacy.”
Do you know why China limits the number of children their people can have? The answer is overpopulation. Contraceptives are needed so the Chinese government can provide for its people, and so the quality of living, especially in the cities, does not decrease. Would you rather have china go to war in order to expand and make room for a bigger population? You forget the fact that, at times, contraception is needed. It's the logical decision.
My friend, Sattvicwarrior, I'm sure all here pray for your sister and her family. However, in spite of your nuanced use of bold type, capital letters and brackets, the example you present is anecdotal and doesn't really prove much. Of course, worrying about statistically significant evidence to establish an argument would only worry those crazy intellectuals hanging about in their fantasy land.
Also, to your point about people becoming aware of the means to control conception, I would respond that there's always been one, sure-fire way to avoid pregnancy. Of course, abstinence would require some of the "enlightened" to to exercise a bit of personal responsibility and maybe--just maybe-- find a new hobby.
Lastly, I'm not sure every child born into a loving but impoverished family would agree that they live in misery. I'm continually amazed by pontificating Americans that assume a life of poverty is a life not worth living. Just because one must struggle mightily to maintain an otherwise underprivileged existence does not necessarily make that existence miserable or worthless.
Now, my friend, afalluco, thank you for your insights on intimacy issues and matters of human relationships. I'm sure Dr. Phil would be proud. However, you need look no further than the explosion of pornography in all forms of media, the growing frequency of sexual abuse of both adults and children, and the other socially deviant behaviors now emerging to find prime examples of how girls and women are routinely objectified and treated with a complete lack of respect. Moreover, things in this regard aren't improving, they're deteriorating and our culture's sexual permissiveness (which is influenced by our use of contraceptives) is a major cause.
As for Red China, I'm sure the Chinese would be more than capable of fending for themselves if they had the opportunity. Unfortunately, the communist regime in power doesn't allow for that type of freedom. Of course, if you believe yourself incapable of taking care of your own needs and actually want the government to take care of you, then I suppose contraception, population control and communist tyrannies aren't such bad things after all. Hmmm...
-Contraceptives are needed so the Chinese government can provide for its people-
That's just it: the government provides for its people. In any socialist system, the people are "provided for", not much different than farm animals. In the end, they get treated that way: bred, groomed, culled.
There is no such thing as overpopulation. Prove it. Prove there are too many people. And famine doesn't prove it. There were famines ten thousand years ago when there were less than a few million humans. Was a few million too many?
G.K. Chesterton defined "birth control" as "no births and no control."
scot said!!!!!!!!!!
Also, to your point about people becoming aware of the means to control conception, I would respond that there's always been one, sure-fire way to avoid pregnancy. Of course, abstinence would require some of the "enlightened" to to exercise a bit of personal responsibility and maybe--just maybe-- find a new hobby. ..
scot …..
a HOBBY??? good grief. a HOBBY??????? dude…
you JUST hit the " piñata of STUPIDITY with a sword of self righteous naivety .. How can you make such a sweeping generalization as to define ones sexuality as a universal expression with one set of values for all that can be averted through a “hobby””??
maybe its like……“ have they no bread ?? let them eat cake”.
is your REAL name MARIE as in Antoinette MARIE???
the realm of desire is profound and expressions that evolve out of it through ones own consciousness or reality is unique to that person .. something that HARDLY can be understood or replaced with a HOBBY.
you are TRULY a SILLY man
. I'm continually amazed by pontificating Americans that assume a life of poverty is a life not worth living. Just because one must struggle mightily to maintain an otherwise underprivileged existence does not necessarily make that existence miserable or worthless..
no one said it was a life not worth living but you . you assume then you would be very comfortable to change at any given moment with their existence to prove your point?
CERTAINLY you speak from experience, OR are you just assuming that from looking out side your fishbowl mentality
I hope that adds to your “continual amazement” ???
Dear pat.. you say..
.Are you absolutely sure that you are absolutely right in what you said? Can I be absolutely sure to trust you above other authorities (e.g., the popes)?
huh??? TRUST ME?? . are you nuts?? to put your trust in ANY person as an absolute form of LIVING TRUTH is not only ludicrous , it borderlines on either desperation or laziness. get a grip dear. and make your OWN decisions. god gave ya brain . USE it to trust GOD, and the force of god within you . not some old dude who writes a thesis or sits with a pointy hat and pursed lips ona gilded "throne" waving his hands telling what IS or what is NOT as absolute truth .
This is serious business and I need to know whom I can rely on to tell me the absolute truth...
.. ok .. now pat. gotta tell ya . your being sarcastic or I'm being NAÏVE. no big deal
but my response to that is . there is NO absolute in ANYTHING of that which is spoken , as it comes from a source that is constantly in change[ the ego ]. or the person [speaking ]. about said subject matter. ther is NO sense of PERMANENCE" so it cant be ABSLOUTE.
The only ABSOLUTE truth is your PERSONAL connection with god, and even that's becomes flawed because of our limited understanding of the omnipotent state once tis bestowed on us for ever so short a moment for those who truly receive that connection ..
Even his { gods] grace can only be interoperated through ones own limited state of duality . yet it’s the grace of god that inspires and motivates NOT someone else’s dogma and repetitive austerities because they look convincing in a pointy hat and gilded robes in a big house with lots of religious artifacts[ most of which were stolen from other cultures by the way]
GOD is without duality. and indivisible and permanent. man is TOTAL duality , and therefore ALWAYS subject to change SO therefore there can be NO permanence in anything man has to offer as truth..
Truth, like god, is unwritten , and cannot be interoperated it IS THAT which is it is an experience.
the words of another person can inspire, but they are only a reflection of “ THAT which is “. they will NEVER be absolute, and to trust anyone to say it is then that makes you a FOOL and the other person a LIAR. Ignorance is NOT bliss. its BONDAGE. no matter how gilded the church is that expresses itself as ABSLOUTE TRUTH , nor how much ritualism is used to pollute the truth . .
My friend sattvicwarrior, your personal barbs do little more than your frequent use of anecdotal evidence to further your arguments. Ironically, your oft pedantic diatribes beautifully illustrate Nietzsche's point in saying that muddying the waters only makes them appear deeper.
Also, you ought reread your own posts before accusing others of misquoting you. I humbly submit your words from your post dated October 1, 2008: "born into poverty, and more misery." Your own logic here equates poverty with misery.
Next, as for my experience with poverty, I spent four years with a non-profit serving the impoverished and politically marginalized in Cleveland, Ohio. (For the record, during three of those years I rec'd less than minimum wage and no benefits in compensation placing me in a category the US gov't. considers 'beneath the poverty line.') What I found during this time were proud people with tremendous faith in their community and a remarkably hopeful outlook for the future. Given the dour outlook of many of my suburban peers, yes, I would exchange places with them.
Lastly, please remember that when you point out the splinter in my eye that you have a plan ready to address the beam in yours.
awwwwwwww sorry scotty . did i make a booboo???? tis funny when people say something others dont like to hear its a" barb" or a "splinter" etc. but then again my “ diatribe” and bold type and slashes and CAPS are ok for you to “ barb” and “ splinter.
..
Also, you ought reread your own posts before accusing others of misquoting you. I humbly submit your words from your post dated October 1, 2008: "born into poverty, and more misery." Your own logic here equates poverty with misery.
.. uhhhhhhhhh yeah . I'm sure not for all people . but there ya go . your doing it again.. your equating that's is “ universal thing”. just like your “ Marie Antoinette antidote to relieve overpopulation in the last post. you assume a LOT dont ya dude.??
as for my experience with poverty, I spent four years with a non-profit serving the impoverished and politically marginalized in Cleveland, Ohio. yada yada yada
.. good point . BUT dude. YOU COULD LEAVE IT THEY CANT .. your “ experience” was not LIVING their life . without any REAL chance of walking away from it … you had a “ out” THEY dont , no matter how much ya gloss over it
Given the dour outlook of many of my suburban peers, yes, I would exchange places with them.
.. then what ya doin typin me this drivel defending your self righteous actions ???? why aren’t you THERE [ with them] where the REAL people are???
..Lastly, please remember that when you point out the splinter in my eye that you have a plan ready to address the beam in yours.
correction dude I am SURE you are perfect. [ at least ya come off that way.]. no “beam in your eye”,. you DA MAN !!!!!!![ well to some ...... maybe]
Did I touch a nerve?
Hey ! SattVicWarrior, What you are saying to me is that you are absolutely convinced that the only thing I can believe in is myself and my personal connection with God. But in order for me to believe this truth you have proposed, I must first believe in you, e.g., that you are right, because you are proposing this idea on how I should live.
.Pat. c'mon.. i said NOTHING of the sort. if you noticed i said.. ."to put your trust in ANY person as an absolute form of LIVING TRUTH is not only ludicrous , it borderlines on either desperation or laziness. get a grip dear. and make your OWN decisions. "
it boils down to MAKE your OWN DECISIONS..[ that really was my point] . if ya dont. then that's ok to. after all . life is about choices, some are good some are ok I guess. depends on the person . and it certainly AINT goona change the order of the universe is it??? MY opinion is just as ridiculous as anyone else's.. but Dont take MY word. or anyone else's. find out for yourself. . .
scot said .....[trying to be clever???] "Did I touch a nerve?
. nawwwwww just wishful thinking on your part dude
PAT!!! one other thing . [ sorry i didnt address this . you say
..What you are saying to me is that you are absolutely convinced that the only thing I can believe in is myself and my personal connection with God...
that is correct, but just because i said so dont mean its true unless you EXPERIENCE it yourself, and whatever means you have to experience it NOT INTELLECTUALIZE it is really none of my busness. there are MANY rivers, but they pretty much all lead to the same ocean. When you become the ANSWER to your OWN question then there is no need to question
Now kids, play nice. Although I must admit the line, "You just hit the pinatta of stupidity" is pretty good. I'll have to remember that one.
Actually - I'm rather enjoying this - I feel a homily coming on. Thanks to everyone - I learn valuable lessons from each point of view.
Afalluco:
If you are finding joy and satisfaction while dating in our current contraceptive society, you are in the minority. I see tremendous pain all around me as the result of people being used instead of loved because now “sex is free”.
Contraception has changed a man’s mindset to: not only ARE women sexually available, they SHOULD be available, I EXPECT them to be available, and some get arrogant enough to MAKE you available through unwanted advances. Any woman of my generation can tell you from experience.
The chance of pregnancy changes a couple’s attitude from the get go: If we have sex, I’ll get pregnant, so we need to be in a relationship where I know a child would be taken care of - marriage. Well, if we need to get married to have sex, then the man has to be the kind of guy a woman would WANT to marry – kind and responsible, not the selfish, immature potheads we get today.
If contraception is supposed to be about “choice” I can tell you from experience that if men can get all the free sex they want, a woman can’t “choose” marriage, even if she wants to.
In countries like China, boys are more desirable than girls. The government’s forced population control is creating an unnatural overpopulation of men. How do you serve the sexual needs of those men with fewer women? Looks like we need forced prostitution. How can we “thin the herd” of men? Is there an upside to breeding a nation with too many men? How about a war? Women in China are kidnapped, strapped down, and forced to have abortions. Is this acceptable for any reason?
I am an atheist/scientist at heart. The most shocking discovery I made about my faith is that its premises are supported by science and that where the world is most wrong, the Church is most right. G.K. Chesterton said the first step in becoming Catholic is the fatal decision to be “fair” to the Church. If you’re open to it, give your faith another chance and look unreservedly wherever the evidence leads – don't look for what is "comfortable", look for what is true. You say you are a former student of St. Sab’s? You should give Fr. V a call and make a coffee date and talk about the Faith. You might be surprised at what you find.
CK
"If you are finding joy and satisfaction while dating in our current contraceptive society, you are in the minority. I see tremendous pain all around me as the result of people being used instead of loved because now “sex is free”."
I'm glad you've responded, and although I respect your point of view I must disagree. If all you see is pain and suffering around you I am very sorry, but I also will tell you that those who find satisfaction in this contraceptive society are not a minority. If pain is all you've seen or endured through this, I am very sorry that is so, but I've seen different. I would like to let you know now, that people I know do not view women as their own pleasure tools. The media plays a big part in portraying this and much of the view of the world today comes from a biased media. You ever notice that most of the "nice" guys you meet, you never would've though of dating at first? Women today are heartbroken just as much as women in the past and still choose men that have degrading views towards women. There are also the same amount of guys who feel treating women with the respect they deserve, you just never hear about them because music, hollywood and the news have all decided against showing this. When you're bombarded with this type of media, your bound to think differently, but honestly, the ratio of degrading-to-nice guys has never changed. Sure, contraceptives have given the ratio of guys who are "jackasses" the mindset that women are or should be sexually active, but, it hasn't changed the minds of the nicer guys.
"The chance of pregnancy changes a couple’s attitude from the get go: If we have sex, I’ll get pregnant, so we need to be in a relationship where I know a child would be taken care of - marriage. Well, if we need to get married to have sex, then the man has to be the kind of guy a woman would WANT to marry – kind and responsible, not the selfish, immature potheads we get today."
We live in a society that wants everything "now". Girls don't look hard enough or settle for less and that is were the immature, potheads come into play. I still stick to what I previously said about contraceptives. People who wait to be married may find that they are very unfulfilled when it comes to intimacy in their relationship, and this certainly leads to other downfalls or they begin to find issues with the person they are with, where, if they explored their relationship more, those issues would've been discovered earlier and problems avoided. Sure, waiting until you are married is a great idea and overall, does build a healthy relationships, but so do couples who use contraceptives. Unfortunately, like anything else in this world, they also have nasty downsides.
"If contraception is supposed to be about “choice” I can tell you from experience that if men can get all the free sex they want, a woman can’t “choose” marriage, even if she wants to."
Again, look harder, guys who respect girls have always bee there.
"In countries like China, boys are more desirable than girls. The government’s forced population control is creating an unnatural overpopulation of men. How do you serve the sexual needs of those men with fewer women? Looks like we need forced prostitution. How can we “thin the herd” of men? Is there an upside to breeding a nation with too many men? How about a war? Women in China are kidnapped, strapped down, and forced to have abortions. Is this acceptable for any reason?"
The government can only do so much and it is two decisions, one being restrict the number of babies, the other, major overpopulation. It's a different world over there and I never said I agreed with what they are doing or not.
"I am an atheist/scientist at heart. The most shocking discovery I made about my faith is that its premises are supported by science and that where the world is most wrong, the Church is most right. G.K. Chesterton said the first step in becoming Catholic is the fatal decision to be “fair” to the Church. If you’re open to it, give your faith another chance and look unreservedly wherever the evidence leads – don't look for what is "comfortable", look for what is true. You say you are a former student of St. Sab’s? You should give Fr. V a call and make a coffee date and talk about the Faith. You might be surprised at what you find."
Truth, in a sense of faith and religion, is based on subjective views. I never said people look for what they are comfortable, only that they believe it because they feel it is the truth and they are comfortable with it because to them, it is the truth. I've always been fair to the church, I still am, I just have a way of looking at the world from more then a single point of view. I wouldn't mind talking to any priest, a debate is always welcome.
Afalluco:
Spoken like one of the "good ones". Your civility is refreshing.
CK
Good gravy, while reading comments, I'd forgotten what the post was about! The really cuckoo part of it all is that, for a woman, sex is a lot like falling out of a jeep and being run over. Bowling is so much more fun. For a guy, sex is over in a few moments. Then, whatever happens, he's back to being himself, while the lady is truly changed, and might just be becoming a mama. So, unless folks are married, seriously, just go bowling, I'm tellin' ya.
But even more seriously, Fr. John A. Hardon had much to say about all this, and very reasonably so, as did JP II in Theology of the Body, which he covered so beautifully. Apparently both holy men based their words on Paul VI's.
(Carol)
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