tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post5974415345513900682..comments2023-12-23T00:19:35.005-08:00Comments on ADAM'S ALE: MEA CULPA, MY BADFr. Vhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13201561855047420853noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-77293005416183281692007-05-19T21:20:00.000-07:002007-05-19T21:20:00.000-07:00I cannot remember which Bishop? Cardinal? spoke in...I cannot remember which Bishop? Cardinal? spoke in favor of condoms a few years ago.. but it should be noted that he was not elected Pope. <BR/><BR/>Someone mentioned an analogy of fire and/or ocean. Yes, fire can be friend as well as enemy, and the same for the ocean. A condom.. or any other form of sexual protection from untimely pregnancy or STDs can never be <I>friend</I> of the one who is made in the image and likeness of God. It is always enemy. Always dismal. It tells God to take a hike for a few minutes.<BR/><BR/>Carol (pls pardon typos)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-25669767925169701832007-05-19T21:10:00.000-07:002007-05-19T21:10:00.000-07:00Littering the landscape with ocndoms is saying, "...Littering the landscape with ocndoms is saying, "We give up." It's like legalizing abortion. Or like giving dying nations GM foods. <BR/><BR/>I hope it never happens to any other mother, but after having raised your kids yuor very best, and making sure they receive all the sacraments and go to Mass and develop a sense of love and responsibility and all the other things we try so hard to give our kids, and to protect, there may come a day when you are kicked in the spiritual throat by not only finding out your daughter has been promiscuous, but that the one who deflowered her little teenaged self calls her a whore.. to your face. And then comes the kick to your heart, when you try to wring a "Yes, it was a mistake," from her, only to see her defiantly deny that's the case. Was it a message of some other that overrode that of her parents' and of the Church? Or was it the attitude all around them of others, the "I give up"? This argument isn't about latex bags being evil.. that is not the distinction we're making, I think. The point, rather, is that if a government (or anyone) sighs and says, "Well, they're going to do it anyway; may as well arm(or) them," it sends the wrong message.<BR/><BR/>We do not give up. Nor does the Church. The schools won't be teaching abstinence, nor even allowing abstinence programs, and Caesar always proves how much he cares. <BR/><BR/>God doesn't send AIDS anymore than He sends tsunamis. But He does allow our foolishness to make us ill, or to shift tectonic plates, eventually. And He does allow us to be reminded that His way works best.<BR/><BR/>CarolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-38454507915918112282007-05-17T18:06:00.000-07:002007-05-17T18:06:00.000-07:00Hi Eric,Has the magisterium come out against havin...Hi Eric,<BR/><BR/>Has the magisterium come out against having condoms 'around' on the grounds that it might be more tempting to sin?<BR/><BR/>Even if they have, I would strongly disagree. The temptation is in your brain, not in a latex bag. What about the withdrawal method, oral sex, or the like?<BR/><BR/>TEACH MORALITY WITH THE ACTUAL BENEFITS OF VIRTUE!<BR/><BR/>trying to enhance the consequence of sin, or imagining the consequential teaching to be abrogated by the paliative use of condoms as a medical device to decrease the consequences totally misses the point of god's love for us and the whole point of the moral teaching of the church as expressed by JPII.<BR/><BR/>PROMISCUITY IS BAD FOR OUR SPIRIT, HEARTS, and PSYCHIC HEALTH!<BR/><BR/>If you cannot frame the argument in terms of how a totally 'safe' promiscuous act is bad for someone, without resorting to pregnancy and disease, then you have no business teaching the young about sexual morality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-16709501661315715442007-05-17T17:26:00.000-07:002007-05-17T17:26:00.000-07:00Winnipeg, I am not sure if you get the point of...Winnipeg, <BR/> I am not sure if you get the point of the Catholic Church's position - having easy access to condoms only encourages their use - a useful comparison may be having a computer at home with a teenager, if they have their computer in their room, they will be more tempted to go on internet sites that are not appropriate, if the computer is in a more public area, they will be less tempted to do so. Not having condoms around will be a reason to be less tempted to have sex as a single person. <BR/> Also, the failure rate of condoms means that with 100 women using condoms, 3 of them will get pregnant per year - do you want a teenaged girl having those kinds of odds? I sure don't. And if they don't get pregnant the first few times of sex, they will be even tempted to have more sex with condoms and knowing teenagers are not the most mature people in the world, their usage of condoms will be less than perfect and then the failure rate goes up to 12%. And where will our teenaged lovers go if they do get pregnant, to the abortionist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-17002638538880590432007-05-17T13:39:00.000-07:002007-05-17T13:39:00.000-07:00Dear Anonymous,Eggs & Sperm:The church does not te...Dear Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Eggs & Sperm:<BR/>The church does not teach that sperm and egg are life. The church teaches that life begins at conception, because an embryo hs the possibility of becoming life while sperm and egg do not. Do not try to extend life to sperm and eggs as they die continuously and are not life, as the church has stated. The church has never stated when the soul is imparted, though Augustine suggested the quickening.<BR/><BR/>OK. Now that we're done with sperm and eggs...<BR/><BR/>Evil Objects:<BR/>Yes, I would agree with that old 2nd amendment statement that guns are not inherently evil. The swiss guard, I am told, carries them in their uniforms to protect the vatican. Cops carry them to protect you. They can be employed to shoot paper targets in harmless fun. Indeed, it is foolish to impart evil to scissors, knives, guns, paperclips, electrical cords, ropes, or any object that could be used to do evil.<BR/><BR/>As Christ says, evil comes from within. We project evil out into the world. We do not receive evil from objects. People use objects to do evil things to one another.<BR/><BR/>And as Fr. V stated a latex bag can be used to keep guns operational in the desert and for many other uses. I seem to recall that intra-vaginal ultrasound wands are kept sterile for each patient with a condom. Is that evil?<BR/><BR/>I'm all for teaching abstinence. But if you try to say that a latex bag is the cause of fornication no one will listen to you. People cause fornication to happen. Irresponsible marketing of latex bags as a failsafe protection is also bad.<BR/><BR/>The real teaching of abstinence can be found in JPII's Theology of the Body. The psychological needs of men and women to not be objectified. To be loved. To find real, deep, and meaningful love. How unrequited love, jealousy, envy, and objectification are harmful in and of themselves. How satisfying married monogamous life, and single celibate life can be deeply satisfying, and why uncommitted sexuality is unfulfilling. Testimonials from people who have lived both ways.<BR/><BR/>These are the things you should focus on. No one with a brain is going to listen to someone ranting about how an inanimate object is evil. Particularly not a latex bag. At least guns make a loud bang and are inherently scary, and can cause instant death. You at least have a shot at convincing someone that a gun is evil though even I would argue that Mr. Cho, not the gun, was the cause of the evil at VA tech.<BR/><BR/>Well. Good luck. <BR/><BR/>BTW - in Theology of the Body did JPII ever say latex bags are evil? I'll be dissapointed if he did. His other arguments are much more convincing to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-33138265550276792782007-05-17T13:17:00.000-07:002007-05-17T13:17:00.000-07:00PS -- that was of course from (Carol), as is this....PS -- that was of course from (Carol), as is this.<BR/><BR/>Let's see... the people who want to keep their guns (ammo, too) want to do so because they are inherently not bad.. just things? They've never actually thought of <I>using</I> them.<BR/><BR/>Those who watch the home shopping channel's monstrous knives and swords sales (and, *gulp.. <I>buy</I> some?) are merely appreciative of the blending of steel and bone? They've never had a thought to use these things?<BR/><BR/>I'm rather confused.. are we on the same side, W.C.? As for antitheses, you do know that sometimes condoms do prevent conception, right? So, what is it that has happened in that moment when sperm is kept from penetrating an egg? Well, something dies, doesn't it? As will that egg, the moment the uterus realizes there's no budding pregnancy to keep thickening itself for. <BR/><BR/>It is something the Church Fathers (and others well before them) spoke to: Do not spill your seed on the ground (or WHEREVER). Why? Because potential life dies? Because we want to be God and call all the shots?<BR/><BR/>Let me clarify: condoms, Orthodeath, sponges, coitus interruptus, mastubration, rape, and having a headache all the time is the antithesis of Heaven. God is ever-creative. To move against potential co-creation is to potentially, yet wilfully, go against God's will.<BR/><BR/>The elephant in the room is:<BR/>Abstinence.<BR/><BR/>Abstinence works. Let's teach it.<BR/>Again.. and again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-34981153670727758322007-05-17T13:00:00.000-07:002007-05-17T13:00:00.000-07:00W.C., are you saying that guns don't kill people?M...W.C., are you saying that guns don't kill people?<BR/><BR/>Maybe you'd better split hairs with the Pope over semantics -- I'm honestly too dumb for that. I keep my eyes on the Prize, follow the examples and counsel He has left to teach us, and I hope to end up on the sheep side of Him one day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-55735881451509189992007-05-17T07:52:00.000-07:002007-05-17T07:52:00.000-07:00"[Condoms] are the very antithesis of what emanate...<I>"[Condoms] are the very antithesis of what emanates from heaven.</I><BR/><BR/>Carol, If you try to equate a latex bag with evil, you're not going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you. The mentality that promiscuity can be consequence free is opposed to moral good, the forces marketing and promoting the idea of consequence free immorality, is what you're really against. When you confuse this with an inanimate object you short circuit your argument.<BR/><BR/>And since we are occupying Iraq as a police force in an action that the pope never approved of, I'd say the use of condoms there isn't a particularly happy thing either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-39231387556348333542007-05-17T07:40:00.000-07:002007-05-17T07:40:00.000-07:00I was afraid to look in here this morn. Now I kno...I was afraid to look in here this morn. Now I know why. :-)<BR/><BR/>My daughter went with a friend to a local planned "parenthood" type clinic once, and there on the table under the lamp near the Highlight magazine (and near, mayhaps, Cosmopolitan?) was an enormous bowl of condoms. EW! Btw, my daughter's friend was 14. Her body <I>hadn't even finished forming</I>, yet she was handed a prescription for chemicals that would alter that body in mid-growth! Unfortunately, her mom knew of it, but these condom-adorned clinics are evil in hiding all info about minors from their parents.<BR/><BR/>Also, a radical group somehow kept to the perimeter of our high school one day decided they'd NOT be shut out, and they went all through town offering kids (yes, kids) flavored condoms. May God help their sorry asses should I ever encounter such a thing.<BR/><BR/>Condoms just simply aren't positive in any way, unless they protect one's spouse from certain diseases. They are a very negative thing, and they did not emanate from heaven. They are the very antithesis of what emanates from heaven.<BR/><BR/>(Um, I didn't know about how to keep sand out of desert guns. Interesting. A failure rate <I>there</I> would be ok..)<BR/><BR/>CarolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-73262213488069674232007-05-17T07:07:00.000-07:002007-05-17T07:07:00.000-07:00WC -I got my statistics from the FDA, the National...WC -<BR/><BR/>I got my statistics from the FDA, the National Institute of Health, and the warning in the condom box. 1-2% failure rate is not true.<BR/><BR/>Look at trojancondoms.com and ask yourself if you would want teenagers visiting the virtual "city" there. Very eye opening.<BR/><BR/>Growing up with the sexual pressure of the 80's was miserable. Adults do send a message of approval when they give condoms. I wish the adults had backed us good kids up because the peer pressure is grueling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-51512427655578386902007-05-17T03:34:00.000-07:002007-05-17T03:34:00.000-07:00WC-Enjoy your young ones. It goes much too fast! I...WC-<BR/>Enjoy your young ones. It goes much too fast! I wish mine were 8 & 10 again!<BR/>God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-73211684170742215842007-05-16T20:29:00.000-07:002007-05-16T20:29:00.000-07:00Amen MJ. I just saw all the young seniors hanging...Amen MJ. I just saw all the young seniors hanging out in front of my local catholic high school two days ago while on my way to daily mass. Looked like some sort of seniors event/tailgating tradition..<BR/><BR/>I have a todler and a baby. I am quite afraid of having a teen and trying to work out my ideology.<BR/><BR/>For myself: The wisdom of my elders was discounted significantly when I thought it was over blown or exagerated.<BR/><BR/>So I tend to assume that if I oversell 'Condoms are evil' my kid will discard EVERYTHING I say because latex bags are not evil. That is how I would have reacted. On the other hand, my kid is not me. And when I have been in a position to witness the catholic faith to people around me, all the nuance that I find reassuring, they find troubling.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, that's the world from my point of view at the moment. <BR/><BR/>Who said anything about terrible twos?!? I love toddlerness, may it last forever, god save me from the terrible teens!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-53082016078978941692007-05-16T16:56:00.000-07:002007-05-16T16:56:00.000-07:00Wow! 19 comments this is a hot topic! I teach juni...Wow! 19 comments this is a hot topic! I teach junior high and high school. Unfortunately most of these kids equate sex with love. Did I say I only teach in Catholic schools. Obviously this is not what we are teaching them. However with mass media this is what they are learning. Many children are going home to raise themselves. Many have a real lack of direction. I don't blame Fr. V for YELLING!!! We all have to get the message out. Especially to the young people because that's where it starts. Many have low self esteem and without encouragement it will not get better!! We need to embrace these children and lead them in the right direction to Jesus!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-67257057754351638552007-05-16T14:52:00.000-07:002007-05-16T14:52:00.000-07:00A bit of clarification. A properly used condom ha...A bit of clarification. A properly used condom has a much better chance than 15%, it is more like 1-2% of 100 sexual acts result in pregnancy.<BR/><BR/>But that is really neither here nor there.<BR/><BR/>I think what we would all agree on is that the condom industry that wishes to use racy advertising selling the theme of safe sex would be unhealthy.<BR/><BR/>There again I would say we should focus on the mentality and never allow ourselves to be focused on the latex bag. We look like idiots when we do that. Of course if someone is already in the act of fornicating, we are sad for them, but we hope they are using a condom because they are less likely to spread disease. But we also hope they realize that they are risking the unborn in their uncommitted and irresponsible actions, not to mention their emotional health.<BR/><BR/>Sound agreeable? See? That's not so bad.<BR/><BR/>This is bad:<BR/><BR/>"Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need <B><I>incentives</B></I> to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law."<BR/><BR/>Bless his heart, I know his intentions were good but that sort of talk makes it sound like we want people to fall into worse suffering than necessary. I prefer to read that statement that it is wrong to exaggerate the lack of consequences as if medical protection was 100% effective. Does that make sense?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-31558132764534808242007-05-16T13:47:00.000-07:002007-05-16T13:47:00.000-07:00Hi Fr V,And thank you (and all) for your thoughts ...Hi Fr V,<BR/><BR/>And thank you (and all) for your thoughts and the discussion. It is helpful. Obviously I struggle to reconcile myself with some points of church teaching though I embrace the intent behind it.<BR/><BR/>All the Best, -BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-26773425896577900772007-05-16T12:48:00.000-07:002007-05-16T12:48:00.000-07:00WC - Just got back from working out and got out of...WC - <BR/><BR/>Just got back from working out and got out of my head for a spell. Spent some time trying to see things in the light you provided. <BR/><BR/>I guess if I had a magic wand, I would not make all such products dissappear off of the counter just yet. We've got far too much work to do. But I still connot condone going through a school and handing out condoms like suckers. I fail to see how one cannot make a link between that and young persons picking up the idea that it must be Okay.<BR/><BR/>Anyway - THANK YOU for the challenging thoughts.Fr. Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201561855047420853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-87549490081500955642007-05-16T12:28:00.000-07:002007-05-16T12:28:00.000-07:00Probability of Pregnancy Over Time for Women Whose...Probability of Pregnancy Over Time for Women Whose Sexual Partners Always Use Condoms:<BR/><BR/>1 year = 15% chance of pregnancy<BR/>2 years = 28% chance<BR/>3 years = 39% chance<BR/>4 years = 48% chance <BR/>5 years = 56% chance <BR/>10 years = 80% chance <BR/><BR/>I assume the statistics are even worse for disease, since a woman my not be fertile when a condom fails, but every failure transmits body fluids.<BR/><BR/>Now imagine your partner has AIDS, a disease that is 100% fatal. Russian roulet has better odds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-53739398484598537922007-05-16T12:16:00.000-07:002007-05-16T12:16:00.000-07:00WC ~ Your nails analogy was already addressed by ...WC ~ <BR/><BR/>Your nails analogy was already addressed by Fr. V. <BR/><BR/>Otherwise, the rest of your comment is bereft of logic. <BR/><BR/>You're referring to natural consequences of sin as being people who follow the natural law and moral teachings of the Church to be inflicting God's suffering upon people. This is not logical. Go back and read what I wrote. God did not intend sin, we choose it through free will, and through OUR actions, WE SUFFER ALL DUE TO OURSELVES. God does not inflict punishment. We just suffer for our choices. <BR/><BR/>"1-You condemn fornication and all people who fornicate to out-of-wedlock pregnancy and STDs. You believe that condoms would only take away this important consequence of sin." <BR/><BR/>This is compltely illogical and displayes your misunderstanding of moral teaching. As far as condemning relations outsideo f marriage? YES! That would be the Commandment against Adultery, for we commit sins under that commandment when we have sexual relations outside of marriage, whether we are single or married to someone else. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Additonally, as has already been addressed, condoms DO NOT STOP STD'S AND PREGNANCY! In fact, even if they are used "correctly" they still don't stop the spread of HPV (Human Papilloma Virus). And funny thing...it's usually men who spread it to women, as most STD's are more readily discharged by men upon women, consistent with how the human body works. <BR/><BR/>WC said: <BR/>"So I tend to feel that choice number 1 is a bit evil, because that is wishing suffering upon sinners to make them bend to your own understanding of the moral good, which is a form of judgement" <BR/><BR/>None of us wishes suffering upon another...we wish for EVERYONE'S dignity to be upheld and affirmed, and suggesting that rutting like animals with the false idea that "we can't help it...we're horney teens and we have condoms and everyone says we're going to do it anyway..." is false logic. It keeps no one safe. It puts the idea into the heads of people everywhere that the behavior is oK< and since the introduction of contraceptives, morality has gone straight down into the toilet ad we've seen the advent of false "logic" that claims that "If I don't get to do what I want I'll suffer". <BR/><BR/>Funny...I remember using that kind of an argument when I was 4 or 5 about some kind of game I wanted to play, then I whined that Mom wasn't fair for not giving me my way. <BR/><BR/>The only way to keep people safe is to uphold chastity which is a reinforcement of true dignity, to continue to teach the truth, even in the face of such illogical arguments as the ones employed by you, which, by the way, are the ones most ofen used by the UN and Planned Parenthood. What company you chooe to keep in your argument. <BR/><BR/>Sorry, friend, they're wrong on this and so are you. I do believe your heart is in the right place, but it would be good if you really understood God's natural order of where sex belongs and the fact that it is sacred....not a toy to be used for random recreation. <BR/><BR/>~ AdoroAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-29134952914300644752007-05-16T11:38:00.000-07:002007-05-16T11:38:00.000-07:00OK, apologies if my reaction was a bit strong... B...OK, apologies if my reaction was a bit strong... <BR/><BR/>But I still cannot see a medical device as a mentality.<BR/><BR/>Take nails for example. Nails were used to crucify Jesus, but they are not evil. Nails are not a crucifiction mentality. They are a small metalic spike used to affix things to one another.<BR/><BR/>I would say that if Uganda has a sucessful abstinence program it is because they are strongly advocating a healthy mentality. It has noting to do with slimy latex bags, or the lack thereof. The last time I checked, condoms are legal in Uganda.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I know plenty of people who failed to maintain virginity whilst single, but did not procreate or spread disease thanks to that second line of defense to our fallen nature, the humble latex bag. Now, do you wish STD's upon the fallen? Pregnancies? No, and I don't know any of recovered fornicators that advocate promiscuity or are proud that they failed to wait until marriage.<BR/><BR/>So you really have two choices here:<BR/><BR/>1-You condemn fornication and all people who fornicate to out-of-wedlock pregnancy and STDs. You believe that condoms would only take away this important consequence of sin.<BR/><BR/>or <BR/><BR/>2-You condemn fornication but you would prefer a fornicator not spread disease or cause out of wedlock pregnancy, or be further tempted to abortion. So condoms are OK by double effect.<BR/><BR/>So I tend to feel that choice number 1 is a bit evil, because that is wishing suffering upon sinners to make them bend to your own understanding of the moral good, which is a form of judgement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-83148787387467527952007-05-16T11:01:00.000-07:002007-05-16T11:01:00.000-07:00Abstanace works when ever it is practiced. We are ...Abstanace works when ever it is practiced. We are not a bunch of animals that cannot control ourselves! God did not say life is easy or that we are to be happy at all times in this life.... life is a sacrifice, any time we can offer up our sufferings to be along side our Lord, Jesus. God knows what is best for us sometimes we think we know better than him!<BR/>RobinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-90472728415943495972007-05-16T10:58:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:58:00.000-07:00Science proves the Church right as usual.In countr...Science proves the Church right as usual.<BR/><BR/>In countries where condoms are promoted, AIDS cases rise (most of Africa). In countries where abstinence and faithfulness are promoted, AIDS cases decrease (Uganda for example). The failure of condoms to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the US (for people who ALWAYS use condoms)is also abysmal. Opinions don't alter facts.<BR/><BR/>The link below will show you the statistics.<BR/><BR/>http://www.hli.org/condom_expose_complete.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-87605260452827673722007-05-16T10:17:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:17:00.000-07:00WC ~ Where did you get THAT!? No, God does not in...WC ~ <BR/><BR/>Where did you get THAT!? <BR/><BR/>No, God does not inflict suffering...we do that all on our own through rejection of Him. Suffering is the consequence of sin, and when we do things like have sex using condoms that break, and do this with perhaps more than one person, it is a rejection of God's love. The behavior causes consequences such as HPV (which is extremely widespread), HIV, and other STD's, as well as unplanned children. <BR/><BR/>No, God doesn't create suffering, but he sure does allow us to wallow in it and he brings great things out of suffering if we offer it to him. <BR/><BR/>The reality is that this over-sexed condom-obsessed culture we live in DOES make it very easy to act in ways contrary to objective morality. We have teh dignity as human beings to TRANSCEND our lusts, but it's a heck of a lot harder to transcend our own will when we're constantly faced with impurity and then someone sticks a contraceptive in our hands with the admonition "don't get killed". <BR/><BR/>Speaking as a woman, every time I said NO to a guy, the first question or statement had to do with "protection", not the fact that I didn't see sex as being a recreational activity or my existance to be for the purpose of his personal pleasure. <BR/><BR/>Were it not for the propagation of condoms, people would be far more valued in our society and we'd wouldn't be witness to so many throw-away lives. <BR/><BR/>~ AdoroAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-11895020031290500052007-05-16T09:52:00.000-07:002007-05-16T09:52:00.000-07:00Hi Fr V.,I was responding in part to Adoro's HV qu...Hi Fr V.,<BR/><BR/>I was responding in part to Adoro's HV quote:<BR/><BR/>"Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law."<BR/><BR/>This makes me upset. The idea that protecting the unborn from entering the crossfire, or protecting the young from STD's or cervical cancer "makes it easy for them to break the law." That just makes me furious that satan got such a statement into the mouth of the vicar of Christ and a committee of cardinals. God does not create suffering and STDs as an INCENTIVE to do good! That statement is not infallible, it is fallible, and it is just plain wrong. My god does not give people AIDS, cancer, warts, and herpes as an incentive to do good. If your god does that, well, we've got different gods. God loves you and wants you to enter into marriage as the fullest expression of love for another person. God is not threatening you with STDs, cancer, and AIDS. Ack. The thought of it is disgusting.<BR/><BR/>Yes I agree with you that the <I>mentality</I> of putting oneself in the path of a hurricane because one has a raincoat is foolish. Sure, I can get behind that. <BR/><BR/>But if humans had a massive biological imperative to go hang out in hurricains (which they don't) then I would tell foolish young people, "don't hang out in hurricains, but if you fail to stay away from them, bring a raincoat, bottles of water, stay in a basement."<BR/><BR/>Again, I don't understand why you equate condoms with a mistaken <I>mentality</I> regarding their use, or a mistaken <I>understanding</I> of their efficacy. Nor do I understand why you think a condom couldn't be dispensed with an <I>admonishment</I> not to use it and so forth.<BR/><BR/>It's not like giving a kid a bag of cocaine and telling them not to use it. They already have the bag of cocaine between their ears, it's called a brain. It's like giving them an adrenaline shot and warning them that the shot has an 85% chance of restarting their heart if they use cocaine.<BR/><BR/>The medical device (Condom) is not connected to the mentality you are concerned about <I>promiscuity</I>. The magisterium's propensity for projecting promiscuity onto a latex bag is illogical and effort ill spent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-64529978940713181462007-05-16T09:23:00.000-07:002007-05-16T09:23:00.000-07:00You made my argument for me. How can you miss in ...You made my argument for me. How can you miss in all of my verbose verbage that yes, we want LESS suffering, LESS disease and illness, LESS unwanted babies but the condom promise (a false one) and lifestyle produce more of it unwittingly. <BR/><BR/>What does artificially making worse consequences for evil have to do with this argument? That is a red harring. Nobody suggested that. But in fact, I would argue that it is the condom mentality that does that deed far better anyway.Fr. Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201561855047420853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5745814378416915364.post-14433953925049117792007-05-16T09:09:00.000-07:002007-05-16T09:09:00.000-07:00Who said anything about contraception in marriage?...Who said anything about contraception in marriage? I'm talking about young single people. I thought that is what the article was about?<BR/><BR/>SO... you think God wants greater consequences, eh?<BR/><BR/>By your rational let's just engineer a more potent AIDS virus so heterosexual sinners will get AIDS more frequently. That'll scare them into not sinning!<BR/><BR/>Sorry. I see the light of truth behind Humanae Vitae, but it flawed on the surface. God loves us. God does not want to increase the suffering and consequences of sin, and anyone who thinks God's love for us expresses itself in suffering is worshipping a false idol. <BR/><BR/>This tendency to want to increase consequences of sin is evil. Some are using it to justify avoidance of the cervical cancer vaccine! Foolish by the definition of Sirach! <BR/><BR/>If you think God *wants* teen pregnancy and *wants* STDs & cervical cancer to happen due to fornication, if you think he imparted the spirit of Wisdom and knowledge to us only to encourage more sinning then I strongly disagree.<BR/><BR/>God is Love.<BR/><BR/>Sex is not a wound. Fornication, promiscuity, and sex outside of monogamous marraige causes wounds.<BR/><BR/>And condoms are a first aid kit that keeps the wound from getting infected.<BR/><BR/>That doesn't mean I agree with a contraceptive mentality, or contraception in marriage. Married people are callde to express sacred sexuality. Single people are called to chastity. But since almost no one achieves perfect chastity, it is ridiculous to put the unborn in the crossfire of flawed human singles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com